What experiences led you to Integral Yoga and when was that?
Bhavani and I had been studying meditation for three and a half years in California with a teacher named Eknath Easwaran. After a while we moved back to Denver where we had no spiritual support. On weekends, we were meditating and spending some time in the Krishna Temple and the Unity Church. That was our spiritual practice for a while, but we knew it was not exactly what we wanted. One day in 1971, as I was reading the religious section of a newspaper I saw a picture of Gurudev and remembered seeing his face on posters in San Francisco. He was soon to be giving a lecture in Denver and off we went.
There were about 6-700 people there. Gurudev came out and sat in a chair surrounded by huge bouquets of tall flowers. He began by saying, “Some teachers will say God is within you which is correct, but what is it that is without? You see these flowers, these flowers are God too.” This is where my mind had been going for the past two years and in that moment I knew that this was our Guru.
After a glowing talk, and the closing Om Shanti chant, I felt a deep peace that made me never want to ever get up out of the chair again. Bhavani felt the same thing, although the friends we were with did not have the same experience as we were having. Looking back, I feel that it was that very night that we received our initiation from Gurudev. The next week we drove up to the Integral yoga Institute in Boulder. As we arrived, they were about to close up to move to Yogaville East. I stayed in touch by phone and learned that another IYI would be opening up right in Denver and that summer we began spending time there. We studied with Steven Bacon, the first Shankarananda, followed by Nischal Devi aka Swami Nischalananda. I read and studied everything Gurudev had written and soon became an IY Hatha teacher. In the spring of 1974 Gurudev visited the Institute. It was at the airport that we first met him. That’s the story of how we got our start.
What spiritual practices make up the focus of your personal sadhana, now?
After 50 years of personal practice and teaching, I now have a very simple practice; I just maintain peace. That’s my entire practice. As soon as I lose it, I sit down quietly, wherever I am or whatever I am doing, and return to that peace. About 30 years ago, at satsang in Sivananda Hall, Gurudev asked, “Who wants to maintain their peace for a week?” I jumped up and said, “I do Gurudev.” He looked at me and said, “Okay, good—you do that Bhagavan!” During that week I discovered that I didn't have any peace! I said to myself that I have to find this. Since then, through a lot of meditation, study and Karma Yoga, I feel I have really burned up a lot of bad karma. If people could realize that this is possible through selfless service then everyone in the world would want to develop the great practice of Karma Yoga. So much from past lives gets burned up—especially if you are doing it for the Guru. I had been practicing peace for a few years by 2004, when I had finished helping to build the ashram. Once I retired from my construction company, New Age Builders, in about 2010, I was able to really dive into the practice of peace. It then became my full practice because I didn’t have any big responsibilities then or even now.
Are there any scriptures that you have an affinity for?
Well, maintaining my peace led me to Advaita Vedanta. For someone who is intellectually inclined as I am, Vedanta is a place to open the heart. The first book I read back around 1970 was The Crest Jewel of Discrimination by Shankaracharya. All the Truth is in there and he just spells it out. I used to read a lot. Now I read little bits of the writings of various saints. I read something of Gurudev, Master Sivananda, Ramana Maharshi and Anandamayi Ma every day. I read some of the current Masters like Mooji. What now influences me the most has been any of the writings of Vedanta. I studied Nisargadatta, H.H.Poonji, Vaishista, and many others. I wanted to stick with teachers I knew were fully realized. It can get confusing because although Self Realization is the same for all the various masters, they have gotten there in their own unique way and they all speak about it a little differently. So I’m careful about what I read.
What is important to you about being an Integral Yoga Minister?
The most important thing is how the commitment has kept me on the path. A while back, if I was tempted to do something that wasn’t ministerial to me such as drinking alcohol, I wouldn’t do it. Having been on a construction crew my whole life, my language was rather salty and once in a while it still can be. My touchstone all the time is to ask myself, “Am I being a good Minister of Integral Yoga?” And of course performing the services of a minister is a great blessing for me; baby blessings, weddings, having the honor of speaking at a memorial, giving talks and so on. Whenever we speak the Truth, the energy changes. Whenever we practice the Truth, the energy of the moment we are in, changes. I think that the greatest blessing of being an Integral Yoga Minister is that we can change the vibration of any moment we are in—take it to a higher level- a peaceful, more beautiful and generous level.
What are the ways that you are now involved in the Integral Yoga Organization?
I still sit on the IYM Board as a consultant. And I am on the Spiritual Life Board which makes decisions that affect the organization’s functioning. If anyone would like to see something happening spiritually, they can let me know and I will present it to the Board. I do little things now. People often just show up in my living room, crying, because spiritual life can be very difficult. I like to just be with people when they are having a really difficult time. It’s like I’m putting my hand out in front of them and they step right into my palm. I help them get to the next place that they couldn’t get to on their own. I like to take my friends shopping for groceries if they can’t do it on their own, or to doctor’s appointments. It’s small things for me now—not grandiose. I’m not looking to teach hundreds of people—just small things. If I can make a positive difference in one life, I feel we’ve both benefited.
Can you tell us about your relationship with Swami Muktananda?
Swami Muktananda is one of the premier teachers of Vedanta today in the world. A few months after Gurudev passed, I was sitting here in my living room, and someone knocked on the door. There was Swami Muktananda. I didn’t know that he was in Yogaville and I hadn't heard from him in a while. A year before Gurudev passed, Swami Muktananda came here and Gurudev invited him to give satsang. It was that approval from Gurudev that probably opened my mind a little more to Muktananda than it might have otherwise been. When he came in and started talking to me, I felt the everpresence of the Divine and the beauty of the world when we are able to live a life of spiritual recognition. I had read the book he had written called Awakening to the Infinite and was very much impressed. I started talking with him on the phone from time to time and then he invited me up to his chalet on a lake in Canada. A few Yogaville friends and I spent about a week with him. His energy was incredibly peaceful, joyful and loving like Gurudev’s. I had known and worked with Muktananda in the 80's at Yogaville. In fact, he had single handedly cleared all the woods to make way for the construction of Kailash with only an old pickup truck and a chainsaw. The connection I had with him as a friend, and then seeing my friend functioning as a Master, made me think maybe I could get a little higher in my path! So I started listening more to him. Around 2010 he was planning to start an ashram and ended up with 250 acres with a huge lodge for sleeping 40 people up on a mountainside. The place is surrounded by a national forest…one of the most beautiful places you’ve ever seen. In the planning stages, he asked if I wanted to build it for him. At the time I was just closing my construction company so I couldn’t do it for him. But I went up every year to consult on the project. In the meantime I started learning about Advaita Vedanta from him.
What are some of the key ideas you hope to communicate to people who are new to Integral yoga?
There are a couple of things people who are starting out need to understand. One is the Yamas and Niyamas because it is very difficult to understand your thoughts and actions without that ethical mastery. The second important thing is to use a mantra, because in this day and age it is very difficult to simply study Vedanta. Our lives are so busy that we just don’t have the time to sit and think about the elevated teachings of Vedanta. Even the ashram sanyasins have to get very involved in the many administrative aspects to make things run properly.
I’d say that Bhakti Yoga is the best path right now—especially for beginners. So first practice Mantra japa and then work on diet and sense control. As Gurudev always suggested, if you are using six teaspoons of sugar every day then gently go to 5, then to 4 and so on. It’s very difficult to work directly with the mind because it is the most powerful thing on earth. Whatever you look at, 99% of it comes out of the human mind. It’s necessary to control that energy to bring the mind to a state of peace, before we can really understand what’s going on. Functioning from a state of peace enables clarity of mind. Even though the mind tells us we can find satisfaction and happiness in things, people, events and so on, we have to come to the understanding that true permanent satisfaction can absolutely never be found that way.
What is the next step in your spiritual growth?
This is interesting because in the first part of our spiritual practice, we do all the work and it gets to a point where we get in touch with something within us. You can call it whatever you like—God, the Higher Self, True Self, or Consciousness. When we get in touch with it and realize it is constantly functioning through us, our spiritual practice becomes more passive. It is more like listening, and then doing what the true inner voice is telling us. So my practice now is listening. I have to become quiet to listen to that voice. Most of the time I am quietly listening. The practice has become a cooperation and a surrender to the inner voice which is guiding me perfectly.
What else would you like to share with anyone who is reading this interview?
The most important thing is to make a commitment to spiritual life. I think the best commitment is to live the life of a renunciate by taking a vow of sannyas. But some of us have families and are not in a position to do that. That’s why we have the Integral Yoga Ministry because as ministers, we make a similar commitment to spiritual life. If you are not feeling drawn to that, then make a commitment to mantra initiation. But make some firm commitment because that kind of sankalpa or intention is very powerful. You have to think, I’m going to do this no matter what! Then stick to it and also enjoy yourself along the way. Self-realization doesn’t happen in a year or in 10 years; it takes a lifetime of service and effort to do this. Be patient with yourself. If you are uncertain about getting involved in some kind of fun, just ask yourself, “Will this still seem good to me tomorrow?” If the answer is no, then just don’t do it. If the answer is yes, go right ahead. Keep up the mantra japa, and keep up the devotional aspect of yoga, or Bhakti yoga. For some, performing pujas and chanting are a wonderful way to open the heart to God and humanity. Any way you can, let your heart open and feel the Divine, unconditional love for all. Whatever your path may be, keep the mind moving towards God.